#13 - "The Value of Art Creation with Michaell Magrutsche - Is Society Missing the Mark?"

When it comes to the YouTube and video preparation, even like movies, for example, creation for those were much more particular in terms of the fine tuned details, in terms of what is actually being created and perpetuated to the audience to enjoy. And because we are getting more and more free time because due to technology and due to social media, the interactions and the kind of loneliness and depression of either not being able to succeed based on all these famous people doing what they're doing. You're not doing much because you have a lot of friends or because society is telling you one thing and you don't want to do that. You're not really living. Welcome back to the Purple political podcast. It has been a while. I've been moving a lot, so I've been pretty busy. But we're back and here to have some great conversations, find solutions, and just really kind of get some productive discussions going on, of course, on the podcast. And we're doing a lot of that, of course. So today my guest here is Michaell, and he's going to tell you what he's about and all the good intro stuff about him. Of course, go ahead. Hi, Radell. My name is Michaell Mcgruch. I was born in Vienna, Austria, and I was a sick child, and then I hit the school and then I could not get anything. So I'm completely self taught because I'm neurodiverse. I'm dysgraphic and dyslexic, but I wrote five books. I coproduced with Robert Evans from the longest pass of Paramount. I was city arts commissioner, and literally, art was my savior. I always say that before so that people understand the context of this conversation. Okay, so I want to dive into that. One of the things that I saw that was pretty interesting in terms of all the bullet points that I saw in your biography and all that stuff is the concept of how humans relinquish their potential to limited manmade systems like technology, economy, et cetera. So I want to break this up into two aspects. First, can you kind of explain the importance of art in society? And then we'll dive into the man made systems you're referring to. So let's start with art first. Okay, so as I said, my savior was art creation. Not art looking just looking at arts, but art creation. I was selling tapes out of my trunk. I was a DJ. I was creating fashion shows. I was in advertising. I was in digital media for me. And when I was 30, I looked at I wanted to write a resume, and I thought, oh my God, all these I realized that I wasn't even realizing, you know, when you're young, you just live moment into moment. And then I said, oh, my God. I realized that context, awareness of that. And then I deemed myself an artist, even though I wasn't famous or anything. I just said, I'm an artist. I couldn't do anything. Else I would have been dead if I wasn't doing art, okay? I would not fit in. I wouldn't have contacts with humans because I had to repeat grades because I was so bad in school. I couldn't regurgitate or read or speak in front of people. So I was just not fit for any system. And so I dove into the art stuff and then kept doing art. And when I was about 50, I couldn't handle it anymore. That all the statistics of 97% 99% of artists worldwide exist on the poverty level. Why is that? If it saved me, if it is so beautiful, it gave me all these feelings of paradise on earth and all this stuff and there's so much magic in music or movies or whatever you like to do, even gaming. And I was saying I can't believe that. And I said I'm going to write and I did already four books about art and I said I'm going to write a book that's called The Smart of Art and to discover why we do what we do. And I was the same as you. I wanted to solutions, I wanted to find a solution or at least an awareness and say, okay, this is just the way it is. And I drove in and found out that first of all I was blaming systems. They say, oh, they just don't appreciate it and they just take advantage of talent, which we see in sports, which you see in creativity, which we see everywhere. And that might be true, but it is just a symptom of an unawareness. And I found important that once you're aware, you don't need steps. You don't need to have knowledge, read books or anything. Once you're aware, like once you're aware you're a man, you're a man, you'll need to study what it is to be a man. You can say I want to better myself as a man, but you don't need for knowing that you're a man. Once you're aware about that, you don't need to learn anything. When I found that out, I found also that. Which brings us to the systems. We look at art. And I was born in Vienna, very classical art, a lot of classical art and stuff. Then I came to America more progressive influences and I was under the impression till I was literally 50 that what we know as art is the whole art and it isn't what we know in systems and nonprofits and religion. What systems consider art is the product. It is not about the artist. Obviously we want to know about the artists of good, DA Vinci and Van Gogh and stuff because it's such a big impact. And then we start the artist. But really art business doesn't care about the artist. It cares about Jeff Coons, the number one. And Damon Hurst. He doesn't care about general people that make money with it. But they're not that nobody cares. They want to see the products, they want to buy the products, want to judge the product. It's a good movie, it's a bad movie. And I realized that and I said wow. Because all the stuff that I am, my survival, my knowledge to communicate with you right now was not taught by me, to me, by anybody. I taught myself through creating art, my awareness of humans, my interaction with humans and in the art community, you don't care if you're a woman or a man, what race you are, or sexuality. It's about the creation. We want to create this project and if you can do it, you're a part. If you can't, you're not part. It doesn't matter what you are. And that I dove deeper and deeper and then I found out we do this with pretty much everything. We do this with politics. It's not about the human anymore. And we have forgotten over generation and there's nobody to blame, it's nobody's fault or whatever. But it's a lack of awareness that we have forgotten that we are species of nature. And I say that because I don't know, because I can't remember anybody said that to me last time. But I keep reiterating it that we are species of nature. We are not a species of systems. Obviously, we don't consider ourselves as a species of systems. A system has never created any animal, nature or human. But we are part of nature. But we don't see ourselves because we have the superpower number one of creating things. New York, Singapore, nike, Apple, McDonald's. We create. We are master creators. An eagle sees better, a dolphin swims better. And we have that brain that can create, that can put two and two together and create. That's our superpower. But it doesn't mean that we are better, particularly, but we assume because we can do this. We are the master race, basically. And I've found that what we did over the years, because a tribe works as a tribe, but when a tribe comes to be big, it needs to become a system. And then system have system intention, requirements, expansion. Like I need to take that other country, I need to take that over. I need soldiers with force. I take it over and my man. And that's the first separation. My man, my warriors, my woman. Okay, what are we going to do? Okay, we give them less, worse, we could just standing on the stove bare new babies for new warriors. And that's how the system separated us in gender. And then when we conquered other lands, oh, these people look different than us. And since we conquered them, we must be number one. So those are not human thoughts. Those are system thoughts systemic. So we already condition ourselves, taken over who is value more, man or woman? Which race is better or even doesn't even the same race. If they're white and, and, and you think you conquer them, you are above us. You know, the French or the English are above the French or above the thing. So you classify, you centrifuge, you stereotype everything. And since all the systems are based on financial principles, everything is based on value, on system value. So that's where we are now. Okay. All right, so you did say a lot, but I want to break this down just to be very clear. First things first. When you're referring to art, are you referring to anything in particular when you reference art, or are you just referring to the concept of creation? What are you referring to? What do you say? Art creation. Art creation. So creating anything? No, creating art. I mean, art creation is I'm standing in silence and create a song. I'm standing in front of a canvas and see what I paint. I want to sit down and write, play. I write a poem. I'm sitting always in front of a blank page, not with an intent that the product should look like that, because that is already limited. The highest form of creation is art creation. When I limit it to create a new iPhone or a competitor to an iPhone, it's already limited. So anything that I say, okay, I want to create something, I feel like music, I feel like painting, I feel whatever. And you just sit yourself down and create. And so, meaning you are starting a conversation with your nonphysical. You get an inspiration, like, easy example, even though it is limited. When you had your inspiration to do a podcast, not everybody has it, but you had an inspiration. Some thought came from your nonphysical. Perhaps you slept. Perhaps you were just looking at nature and all of a sudden say, I need to do a podcast. And boom, then you create one. And then how should it look, that podcast? And then you start a conversation with your non. Physical. This is the physical when you sleep that you're not conscious about. And you start back and forth, and all of a sudden, you create that, and then you tweak it and make it different, and you move to another place, and you change it again. And that's how it works. So are you referring to creation based off abstract inspiration? Would you say it's art? Yeah, I would say copying anybody, even in a portrait, is societally. This says it's art, because we didn't have another word for what that is. But it's basically a copy. Whatever you copy and in the copy can be art. It could be an artistic art. I mean, Wahoo was a copier, but he put his colors his way in there, and that's the artistic way. It's not the copy. It's not that he copied Marilyn Monroe. The act of copying Marilyn Monroe is the least worthy. The most worthy is what he did with that copy. Okay, I get the general idea. So when it comes down to art and this creational process, do you believe the value of art and this type of creation is being lost in current society? Is that your kind of mindset? As of right now? I think it never was, because, look, how did art start? They saw somebody. You think it never existed or never existed. It was always about the product. Because if Mozart would have played music not on a square with his family, and somebody would have heard it and introduced him to the king, so the system and the king wouldn't like it, you would never hear about Mozart. If I don't like what you create, if you are dependent on what I say about you, I can love you or I hate you, and that's not the value. The energy of art doesn't want to be judged, or it doesn't say, okay, when you create this painting, now, you need to sell. I have 100,000 followers, and you need to be famous. That was a system thoughts and system dynamics that art doesn't follow. Art follows of, I want to be created and exposed, and if that's one person, that's fine. Okay, so you're saying that there's never been a point in society where art was valued as an individual without external, subjective opinions? You can like it. It's like creating a hoodie, right? You create a hoodie, and the people like it or hate it. But hoodies are there forever. Art has been since the cave paintings. It has been there forever. It just got that name of what we're calling dysfunction. We call it art. But the creation process of that art is what's powerful. That's what's really powerful. And that's Rick Rubin just wrote a book. The Creative Act a Way of Being Fantastic. It's like the Bible. Okay? Why is it powerful? Why is this creation portion so valuable? Because you have instant feedback. For example, I can say your podcast is the worst podcast or the absolute best podcast I've ever seen, and you're the best host. Okay? And the next day, somebody tells me, no. Have you looked at that with Radell and said, no, I changed my mind. You're not the best. You're the worst. It doesn't matter if you're the best, the worst, it doesn't matter. But I can take your ego accolades away, but I cannot take away that you created it. I cannot take that away. It doesn't matter what happens there's Radell, and he created these podcasts with this guest. He went and got the guests, talked to them, interviewed them, made them interested or not. You created a podcast. You created something in the you created art in your way that I cannot take away. The creative process of how you did your podcast is the value. It's not the value. If society likes it or not, that's societally. All right? Now, if I'm being completely honest, I don't really agree to that, because I think that if it has no function and purpose, then it's just a waste of time personally even if you created it as an individual. But I do think art does have value and I do think it is somewhat very much lost. I do think in our current society based on the man made systems we're being way more too much wanting. The numbers were like if I make an analogy right when it comes to the YouTube and Video Corporation, even like movies for example, creation for those were much more particular in terms of the fine tuned details, in terms of what is actually being created and perpetuated to the audience to enjoy. At the end of the day the audience is very much important to that. Nowadays there's a certain algorithm where you could do the bare minimum, just do this basic stuff. You're not really creating anything. You're copying a lot of like stuff that's already popular and then you just want the numbers to go up, the numbers to go up and then obviously you want to get either really famous or really wealthy. It's very simplistic nowadays. So I do think I agree there in a sense with that said, what do you think is the solution to either increasing the value of art in society today or kind of educating people in the sense that the creation process and caring about what you're creating is more valuable than just caring about the numbers. How do you think people should go about that or what do you think as a society we should do? I think it's all the awareness. It's the awareness that we have forgotten that we are a part of nature, that we think through systems. I look through you and look at how many views you have of successful I'm not looking and I told you that before the podcast. I don't care. That's not my focus. I want of course that a lot of people listen to our talk and I want to be that we get some reward in any way or form by creating that. But that is secondary. The secondary is I'm disrespectful to all the listeners if I don't focus with you, I'm making the best show that we can do. Say it's ignorance and everybody is ignorant to that. The customer doesn't know anything but they just react of what you guys created. Our responsibility as creators is creating the best thing that you and I can do in the moment and if we do the best and nobody likes it, it's fine. If we do the best and everybody likes him, it's great. If you just look for I want just to have attention. I had a speech and I took a scissor and said I'm going to cut my finger off. And everybody was like and I said oh I got your attention. Okay, but you better keep that attention on me because I only have nine fingers left. And this is exactly the metaphor that I try to think. It's not an attention grabber and the sad thing of the attention getting attention is that the Internet you said be famous. But what is famous equally too? It's basically also when you're famous, you get a sponsor, you get money. It's basically all about attention, opportunity that you get talking about that you get loved that you get recognized in any way or form. And when you get recognized, then you are okay. But if knowing as a species of nature nature doesn't create any surf plus it doesn't say okay, there's 200 lines and now I have to kill them because there are 200 lines too much. Nature always balance itself in harmony. It's always sets itself in harmony. And since we are a species of nature and nature isn't wrong ever which all systems say therefore every human that exists is worthy. The ant doesn't think, oh, my God, the elephant. I wish I was an elephant. And the elephant doesn't say I wish I was a zebra. We exist and we are worthy. We don't need to sell ourselves. But our economic system which all man made systems are based on to sustain themselves forces always imbalance brings money to the rich and takes money from the poor. And not because they are mean people. See, that's why we're already projecting humanity into systems. That's how systems function. They are limited. They're human created. And that's just how it is. Every difference will be evaluated. My skin color, your skill systemically will be evaluated even though it has absolutely no bearing on anything. You are different. It's like a zebra is upset about a giraffe because it looks different. Where is that logic? Tell me what is the worth? What is the human worth in differentiating? A woman from a man, your race, from my race or any other race? What is the point? The point is always money. I don't necessarily agree to that but I want to dive into two things here. First thing is I do think there's a strong niche of people who care about the nuances of being human and being part of nature and the value of just being. We know that niche should exist and we know those people exist. However, when you're appealing to when you're kind of relaying a message at the end of the day you could talk to that niche but it'll be fine night. Whereas you have to find a way of messaging to these people part of these man made systems that you're referring to. So I think that is important to consider in the sense that when it comes to humans and the problems that we're having in current society mostly it's mostly like a Western thing at the end of the day that's really problematic in terms of this self identification and this toxifying between each other. And that's mostly because of humans just ability to kind of be very introspective. At the end of the day, that's what I believe. And because we are getting more and more free time because due to technology and due to social media, the interactions and the kind of loneliness and depression of either not being able to succeed based on all these famous people doing what they're doing. You're not doing much because you don't have a lot of friends or because society is telling you one thing and you don't want to do that. You're not really living. So I will say I do think there's a certain loss and I've talked about this before certain loss of meaning in terms of life. And then these people with that loss of meaning are trying to search for themselves in these very abstract ideals that don't mean anything such as racism, such as prejudice, stuff like that. So I think it's not much more so a money thing. I do think money plays a part. People make money off of people hating each other. The Democrats and Republicans do it all the time. But in terms of individual humans, I think it's more of a focus on current way of life as a human in current society and how everything is kind of being kind of framed as of right now now to kind of touch upon the art stuff and the man made system stuff. So if you were trying to pitch to people who, in all intents and purposes, the ones that are kind of, like, care about the value of things and want to be rich, want to be famous, want to have value in the things that they create? How would you pitch these people to make them focus more so on the creation process, on being the best version of themselves, the things they're creating? How would you pitch these people in particular? Awesome question. I wouldn't try to make them aware that first of all, there's nothing wrong of getting money. There's nothing wrong with getting fame. There's nothing wrong with being successful and fulfilling. But what really counts is the fulfillment. The fulfillment is the human. When you look yourself as a species of nature, you want to be fulfilled. Successful is a goal. It's a lack. It's made out of lack. You hit the goal the first quarter, you hit the goal the second quarter and you start from scratch. What I mean by fulfillment, fulfillment is that feeling you are good enough, the world is okay. It's the feeling that you have after an orgasm. So it's basically a feedback, emotional feedback loop. After union you kind of get rewarded with that feedback loop that it is okay to be human and we have lost that because we are always like that before. We are also distracted by bullshit like racism, all that stuff that actually systems created. And you tell me whenever system created human problems, when a system can fix that like lives matter. Like me too, like political correctness, they can't if you are racist, if you are over generation be conditioned as a racist and you believe my daddy is right? Because that's the daddy mommy love. It doesn't matter what I see in the system. You're putting the nice white clothes on in the system, but you the devil inside. And the white clothes that you put on in the system is making the devil even worse because you're suppressing your core belief that the difference between other racists or genders or sexuality. And it makes it worse because it's all their appearance in system. It's the appearance that's important, not what's real. Everybody that I know, all my friends, they hang out with other races, with other genders, but when they go in the system, it comes out when they all of a sudden try to be system adapt. When humans come together, friends come together, everything is equal. But when we navigate in systems in your job and everything else, you separate Indonesia and that's and then we get distracted. I mean, look at politics and your broadcast is about politics. What is politics supposed to do? Tell me a definition that you believe. What should politics supposed to do? And then I tell your mind, okay. Are you asking what it's supposed to do or what it's actually doing? What you're supposed to do? What is supposed because then we see how far we got off the I'm a politician by the way. I've been my past politician, okay? And I'm a political advisor. So what is the sense that somebody says, okay, we need politicians? What are they supposed to do? Well, in terms of politicians versus politics, I think they're different. Politicians are very simple. I mean they're supposed to be in service of the community. They're supposed to be voted for for a particular purpose and accomplish that purpose. So that is what the hope is when it comes to these politicians. Politics itself is more so the strategies put in place to convince people to vote for you. That's what it is. And now it's kind of very sneaky nowadays in terms of politics. And I like that, that you said that very essential. You didn't talk around, so you said it, but you said it from a system viewpoint. I tell you the human viewpoint, the human viewpoint of a politician is a human, another human. I'm voting for another human. I'm representing, like you said, representing. I'm voting for another human because I believe that in the system of politics this person understands what my or your or not just my needs. So then what is the needs that human needs that can be realized in a limited system through doing the right political actions? So how can humans be represented the best way in the system of politics so that we are all fulfilled? We know we're not going to be perfectly fulfilled because we know systems are limited and you can't make it perfect for everybody, but how can we make the most perfect in the situation that we are? And then I say also the politics is just a shuffle. It's just like marketing. It's just we're taking away from the dams and we put them into the Republicans, we take them away from the delicates, we put them in the dams. It's just a waste. The politics and the marketing of things are waste. They are not really supporting human potential. They are just moving voters from one place to another. Where are we now? We have no clue. And the people that actually are in the politics and the people that vote for them are distracted by bullshit. Yeah, very much. The general populace doesn't really know much about politics. They just get fed what they're fed on TV and social media. Okay, so with that said, in terms of the man made systems, there's two questions I want to ask here. First question is, are you saying that there has never been a time where the systems that people have made, created a problem and then another system fixed the problem? Are you saying that's never happened or generally does not happen? Which one are you saying? I think it happens to a little bit. So, for example, equality. Right? Right. And I show you how crazy quality is. In the nature realm, in the human nature realm, you are equal by your existence. You exist. That is the proof that you are worthy to live. And you are equal. You're not better. The ant is not better than the elephant in that system of nature. There's just an organic system in the manmade. It's all about depending on the system value, on the system relevance and the system value. And that's why I hope that's an answer for you. Okay, I see what you're saying. I mean, you said generally it doesn't fix the situation. It doesn't fit the situation. Because if women would have never asked for equality or any minority or any different sex or anything would never ask for that and just said, listen, we are humans like you. And my systems haven't created us. This wasn't a mistake. We are here because we're alive. That's why we're here and that's why we're worthy. So if we would just let go of any categorization, I'm not saying, oh, I don't see that she's a woman, or I'm saying, oh my God, you are a different color than me. I'm seeing that. But it has no relevance to me because I'm looking and say, where is he reflecting me? Because we are inclusive. We are 8 billion people that have different fingerprints, different irises, and different DNA. And we are born to be inclusive. We are better when we work together. We are not better when we work against each other. And what is the purpose of living then? If we constantly classify, distract ourselves. What's your difference? What is my difference? And there is a difference that you can't do anything with me knowing that you were a different color or that you would be. A different sex doesn't help me any. Tell me what that helps me. Tell me if the classification and stereotypical things of anything helps you or me to navigate our lives. Zero. I mean reproduction, knowing different sexes, you. Would need to yeah, I said obviously I know you're a different color. I know when a woman is a different sex. I understand that, you know, but it has no relevance that is pushed up as systems. It has no relevance in that we are all humans and we have to all get along. Not we have to we can choose to both go somewhere else, but we all have to see we are part of each other and it's not religious or spiritual, it just is that way. And what we do now is not what we do systemically. Okay, well, I'm going to comment real quick before I ask my second question. Now, inherently I do think that for the most part, a lot of these toxic negative ideologies or terms isn't very negative. And things that were perpetuated from a long time ago, I do agree with that. I do think it's a bit idealistic to kind of think that humans will ever see other humans as humans because I do think in nature itself the strongest will always try to dominate the non strong regardless of anything, regardless of who you are. I don't think it's a system thing. I think it's a human nature thing personally. So I think that will always be the case. I think when you start framing to the logic of we are all humans and then that makes sense. But then there are people who care about themselves too much to ever allow that to be a thing inherently, regardless of. So now to kind of touch upon systems once more, I'm curious. I always like to do this because when you're talking about these different things, you always have to put things into context in terms of your beliefs and the value of said things. Right? So can you give me a positive value of the man made systems that are created in society and then of course give me your biggest negative of the man made systems in current society. They're being not what they are now, but they're being okay. So the existence of a system is very good. When you look at the history of systems, the thought that let's say you and me say, oh, let's do a new organization for better podcasting, let's say, why is that bad? That is absolutely positive. If you and I say, oh, we want to tend to a garden, there's this brush thing and we want to make a garden out of it. And you and I, we like gardening and say we want to do this and we do this, we might see each other, we might not say each other, but we have committed, we create that garden. Now, 150 of your friends and 150 of my my friends wanted to be part of creating that garden because you and I in the pub and saying, hey, that was so great. I was thinking and sometimes I see Radell and sometimes I don't and we have fun. Now when 150 so 300 people want to tend to the same garden. So you need a calendar, you need a scheduling, you need maintenance, you need all these things. And then it is too hard to tend to the garden and have the joy of a garden because it becomes systemized. We have to systemize that we all can participate. System is a wonderful thing. But the thing is through the Internet and through using systems, we become more narrow costs and more niche and we become aware that we actually can get off from what we want. Because when you go to the Internet, I said I want purple blue sneakers from Nike. You can bet your ass I get those. It doesn't matter if I make it custom from somebody makes them, I get that. And we can get a lot of things not human wise. I'm not saying your lover or whatever, but I'm saying whatever you want, like a sneaker, a music or whatever, you will find it or it is a high potential that you will find it. And we become aware that we can get that and systems have to change. And this is my next book. The one that I'm putting out now is in about two months. But the next is all about solutions. How can we make systems more human adaptable? Because right now in order that the system functions, humans need to adapt to the system. You and I need to agree in that garden with 300 people that we're going to abide the rules and that we are part of the system. So we adapt. So in the old days, you and I went to the garden, we did whatever we did, but now we can't. So if I like 05:00 in the afternoon and you and here and then we met each other, now we have to get whatever time is available. And that makes us that is actually the idea of enjoying the garden. It's taken away. And today I give you a good example. There's a new politician. He wants new taxes. He gets the mother with five kids. That is the tax expert in America. Make the new taxes, the tax laws, taxes. And on the other side is a mother that has five kids that want to say I'm going to get the best tax attorney. I'm going to navigate all this tax so I can feed my kids. So both are the losers. There's no winner in that because the people that create the systems waste all the time to make something that can be navigated through and the other one that navigates it wastes all the system to find and pay somebody to navigate the system. And it's like the virus software and the antivirus software. It's both a waste of human energy and that's why we need to change system to become human adapt because it doesn't work anymore. Our existence is like a quarter of our lives. We're filling out forms and try to be part of the systems. And system is a great thing. It always starts with a phenomenal idea but then because more and more people participate and it is on financial principle, it must so all systems are promoting to get more participants because that makes them stronger. And there's the breakdown. That's what we're not aware of because system is a thing we created and it's not a living thing. It's not like nature where there is no surplus, where there is no it's always abundant, it always creates abundance. And so we need to adapt ourselves. And first is the awareness. If we are not aware, if we don't listen to our podcast, not awareness, we just do it. We wake it up, clock in in the morning, at night, come home and sleep. Okay, I hope that makes sense. No, I understand and I do think there's a way there's value in what you said. I will say that I do think there are certain systems that will feed on people. Basically how you kind of described it, how advertising is, how the YouTube algorithm is constantly feeding you, you want more. That's basically consumerism. Currently in society it started out good because we got more food, we got more technology. But humans are now trying to figure out moderation and because America so got everything that moderation is nonexistent. We're doing too much food, we're doing too much social media, we do too much TV. So we got to figure out moderation. And I don't think these systems want that because they keep on getting money in their pockets. Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. No, exactly. There are certain systems that definitely do that. However, I do think there are systems that will need forever because humanity is not that competent, I believe, such as government, for example. We will never survive without a government and that would be completely anarchy. Whether you think this government is inefficient or whatever, that can be discussed at a different time. So with that said, I definitely understand where you're coming from to kind of reroute the value that you're kind of perpetuating. I think what it would have extreme value in is the people that are suffering from this excess and those I believe, are the people that are suffering from all these mental illnesses that is going on in the west, especially America. It seems like there's a rise in like depression. People are taking more pills, people are getting more wanting, the suicide rate is going up and COVID didn't help that, obviously. And those people are the people who have no value in anything. They can go to social media but have no friends and it's just people on the internet you're not going to get value from that playing video games all day. You're not really going to get value from that either. Most likely these people are not part of a club or sports, but even some people who are still depressed, right. So those people would definitely benefit extremely from the value of art and creation and finding joy in something that you're creating as an individual. So how would you pitch these people in particular? Because I think they're the ones that need this the most. So how would you walk up to a person that is suffering from this self loathing and kind of pitch them the value of creating art and how this would help you in your life moving forward? I make them aware. And I also need to correct you, because not only poor people feel depressed, middle class and upper class. Did I say poor people? I don't think I said poor people. No, I understood it. Sorry. But I want to say it's all people. It's all people from all people. I agree. Yeah, all people, every race there we are all the same. This is equal opportunity depression. Everybody thinks and we are unconscious, that we conditioned us, because you can't beat creativity. If I used my creativity to beat you and you try to beat me, there's no winning. There's no winning in that action. And we don't see I'm not blaming I am for systems. I'm not against systems. I'm just saying we are unaware that we have to have when we use system and have system, we need to make them human adapt and not system adapt. We need to make them not better, more static systems, but more adapt to humans, that we don't create system problems, human system problems, because social media and algorithms and all this stuff, a system issues that created human problems. It's not that humans, oh, I want to just go on social media and I don't even know that I'm going to be seduced. I don't know it. We're not conscious of saying, when you drink, you know, that could end up bad. If you smoke, that could end up bad. So do you know that? But you don't know that with social media. You don't know that with algorithms because it's so subdued, it caters to your needs. But it can't be sunny every day. That's not life. And you are depressed by the fact that it isn't sunny. The system says it should be sunny every day. If it's not, we sell you a Ferrari, a pill, or a face job, and you say, okay, we're buying all these things, and then you're still depressed. Then the system say, oh, I sell you a Lamborghini, I sell you a workout, and I sell you something else. And you do that. And this is still I was good for a week, but I'm still okay. And then it says, no, it should sound me every day there's something inherently wrong with you, and that doesn't exist in nature. It doesn't exist that you're not valuable. The beggar and the billionaire have the same problem. Money. The beggar on Fifth Avenue and the people that walk Fifth Avenue, the system navigators that know how to function in New York, both of them are unaware that they affect each other and that they are worthy. I'm saying, for example, when you see how they react, they look away. Some people go and give the beggar some money or homeless some money. Some people talk to them. Some people go on the other side of the street. They don't want to have anything to do with it. So basically, we are all interactive and we are all affecting each other. And that's what doesn't exist in system. In systems, you are irrelevant. Like the beggar. And he's suffering because he's irrelevant. And the people that walk by him suffering because they know they can end up tomorrow. Because the system is no guarantee. Nature is a guarantee. It's fair. It's fair. The strongest survive, like you said, but the strongest doesn't kill. The lion doesn't kill every gazelle so he has something to eat tomorrow, the lion kills. One gazelle is happy. In an hour later, gazelles are grazing around him ten yards away because they know that the tiger is eaten. Or the other lions. The lions also kill other packs that threaten them. And they'll kill the pack leaders, too. Absolutely. The wolf always is challenged. The leaders always challenged. I understand, but that is still fair, and more fair than subconsciously. Something is killing you. You know that's an enemy. If you know that's an enemy, you have your senses to know what to do or to react in a way. And by the way, indigenous tribes did not fight with each other. Indigenous tribes, when one tribe went to another, they usually walk, keep walking. Eskimos Indians, they're not going into interdisciplinates. When it becomes too big, when it comes to systemized, then stuff happens. So we are benevolent. Human beings are benevolent. They are not what system wants us to think they are. And it's not the system problem. It's just everybody has to live. So we're just fighting each other with our creativity through the systems, if that makes sense. I don't know if that makes sense to you. No, I completely understand everything you're saying. Some things that I don't entirely agree with, but that's perfectly fine. We don't have to agree with everything. And I would like to explain to me why you're not agreeing with me. I would love that, because that would make the discussion better. Why you're not agreeing. I don't want you to convince you, but I want to learn from this conversation. And if you just say I don't agree with that, that's fine. But I would get more out of it if you could actually say why you're not agreeing with it. Okay, I thought I'd said that a few times, but to kind of go over your most recent .1 I don't think humans are inherently benevolent. I also don't think it's always true that indigenous tribes would be peaceful with one another. I think it may be true sometimes, but I also think that there's probably other examples of tribes killing each other for dominance of that area. I feel like it's like 50 50% of humans are inherently selfish and won't care about other people. 50 will be very caring and reach out a hand to help the beggar on the street. So it's really hard to figure out who is what, because it's always shadowed with a lot of different nuances of their personality. And you will never know if they're really a good person or a bad person until something as extreme as a life threatening event happens. I completely agree with you. I completely agree with you. But I have an avenger for you, because if you think, for example, the current war, it cost the rate 200,000 lives. If you think that people are selfish or whatever, they run that war or are disturbed or bad people, I need to tell you there are bad people because they're system damaged. Look at media. Look at media. Media doesn't tell you, Radell was a great politician. He did his job, and then he went in his pension. They don't tell you, this mother was the great mother. She raised five sons. They are all good, and they're all productive. Media cannot even survive from that. Media has to find the disturbed people, and that then conditions you to believe that the world is hostile. Einstein says you have to decide in your life if the world is hostile or it's benevolent. And I tell you, in general, the world is benevolent because two people don't even want anything. They don't even want it moderation. They say, I don't need a new car. We just want to get together, have peace, eat, have a nice meal together and be okay. And these people, like Putin or Zelensky, these people are disturbed. System disturbed. The guy was in the Secret Service. That is a sole system. It doesn't get more system defined. When you're in the Secret Service, you are in anxiety the moment you step over the door. And then the rest of your life, you got to be in anxiety, because everybody has the potential, because humans have the potential to be good or bad in every situation. And if you can't surrender to that, you got to be paranoid. And your paranoia is then to be safe, using the system to take over another country, to kill people, to have genocides, to have slavery. There are systems disturb leaders that use the system to be safe. Okay, yeah. The Putin part I don't agree with at all. I think he chose to be the Secret Service, and I think that it's not paranoia. He just has this type of nationalism of being Russia being greater than, like its former glory. That's not a human thought. I think for the most part, when it comes to I do agree. We talked about consumerism, and you already mentioned media will put in front of negative news because people watch negative news. They don't want to watch the mother doing this great thing. They want to watch this horrible car crash for some reason, because people just want to watch that. I didn't think that's a problem system. But in terms of individuals, like a Putin, for example, these are individuals that will always, regardless of system, want more. They're the dominators, so they're the ones who want to be the best of the best. So it's not a system thing. It's an inherent, individualistic, selfish thing. So I don't think that system to blame, because even if the system I'm. Not blaming the system, but how afraid must you be when you kill 200,000 people or you're partially responsible and you know from people that says once you kill somebody, it changes your soul? I'm sorry. When I'm looking at you as a product instead of as a living being, I'm disturbed. I want to be the greatest. I want to be the best. He knows he's not the best, whatever he does. If you don't think Putin knows that I think when it comes to elite, they are disturbed, but that they're disturbed from the mindset of an average person thinking rationally. These people will see people as products. They will kill millions of people. They won't care. So you say the same thing as I do. You say the same thing. It's exactly the same that I say they are disturbed. You know how many people became billionaires because they're so afraid? They were poor and they were almost died, and they became billionaires because they were so afraid of not existing and then take their life because they weren't happy. This was it. This is the wrong idea. It's a disturbed idea. Taking over another country is a disturbed idea. It's not a normal idea. Normal human, and there's no normal human. There's eight billions. They're all unique. But to take over a country to kill somebody is disturbed. If you say it's justified to kill these people, I wouldn't even say if he did 200 in this world, I wouldn't even say we have the right to take his life. He's a part of human fabric, and it teaches us something. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm saying it's disturbed. It's not the norm, because humans are not mean, they're not cheaters, they're not liars. They are driven by systems and by disturbed systems dynamics to become that. Because when I push your parents were probably harder working than you physically, but they work to live now. It changed through the system, always needing more money and reshuffling imbalance to bring more money to rich and less to think. It becomes like we we work to survive that means you push a human living being into the corner. When you don't do what the tribe does, you're dead. And that's why everybody reacts disturbed. That's why the media is full of people that are completely whacked out. Right? Yeah. I still think it's more of a human thing. I think at the end of the day that we're not aware of this system, you're going to have the people who are going to want to dominate everybody. You're going to have the people. You're going to have a lot of humans killing each other regardless because survival the fittest. You're going to have people struggling even more so because life expectancy was way lower. People are surviving more nowadays than ever before, more food than ever before. It's just people have too much time on their hands nowadays, and they don't know how to live, whereas you had to survive each day hoping that you survived the next day. So the systems have created a very fruitful life for humanity, especially in the west, and a very convenient life for people. It's just people. We just got to adapt to this current system. And nowadays, based on how current the world works, invading other countries is not good. It's not okay because we created the United Nations, and we got the most powerful countries saying, no, you can't do that, or they're saying, no, you can't do that, based on their own personal selfishness or some moral good that they're trying to preach. But back in the day, we know for a fact that countries were invading left and right like nobody's business and killing millions of people and not feeling bad. So we definitely created a more beneficial system for humanity nowadays. I think for the most part, it's just being able to adapt with this current issue. Now. It's not as bad as it ever was back then, but with this increase of technology, which is such a very unique thing, especially with AI and smart technology, it's going to be very interesting to see how they adapt to it. Especially considering now they want to prolong life even more so now that they're working on de aging cells. So there's going to be more humans, more technology, more smart technology that are even smarter than humans. So we possibly might have beings on this planet that are smarter than humans and trying to adapt with this new kind of wave and this interconnectivity. It's a lot. Liberty expected this to be like this. But we got to adapt because we are unaware. Is that living? Because I live till 120 or 150, is that living? Depends on the person in the stress that systems create. You need a long time to live to have a fulfilled life, or that's the promise work till 60, till your whole body is destroyed from adapting constantly to a system. And then when you actually get your freedom with 65 or 70, then you collapse. Your body cannot even end because you sold out your whole life force, your whole life and you were not aware of this because it's not the system's fault, it's not the human's fault, it's our unawareness. And you said we have to adapt. It's funny that you said that we have to adapt. No, we don't have to adapt. We are smart enough to create systems that make us aware and give us the priority that we are the number one primate in this world and we don't need to have to save nature, we need to save nature so that our habitat, that part of nature we need to save, that our habitat. Our kids, kids can enjoy the trip on Earth to Earth and have a fulfilled life. That's why we don't have to do it because we are the gods and we need to save humans. We didn't create nature and like the dinosaurs, nature is just keeping going on without that species. And by the way, we have extinct civilizations. Look at the Mayans, look at the Egyptian, we extinguish this civilization and what does nature do? It just grows over. Look at Chernobyl, the last thing that we destroyed, it just grows over nature. It just keeps going. Humanity wants to last forever but that's. System conditioning that they want that they also don't. We don't look at death. Do you think we look at death? This society try to find a death body. You can look if you say I want to see a dead body, see? Who is going to allow you to see a dead body? You can't, you can't. You cannot see unless you shoot somebody or you just walk into a house where somebody got shot or died. There's a lot of death on the internet if you really wanted to be one of those type of people. But I mean for the most part when it comes down to it, the moment humanity gain a certain level sentience and intelligence, the whole purpose of life is to survive. And now our ability to survive is so advanced that we want to keep on surviving and outlasting even Earth, we want to move to Mars. So I don't think that's a system thing at all. I think that's just the will to survive. Honestly, no, it is connected with the will of surviving. But when I sell you surviving and say what is if you get 300 years old because you actually look at in the future that this is going to be better, it's not because it's more fulfilled. You just think you feel unfulfilled and that's why you want to be really long or old and you don't want to die and you want to be just consume, consume, consume. That is distorted. System distorted. That is not your habitat, that is not how you are. That is not becoming. It comes from a survival instinct. Absolutely. But it is systemably used as survival institute to disturb you more as a human because it's not fulfillment. How many people have you seen that put 15, 2100 grand in a wedding and nobody has a good time? And then you see people that just sit by a campfire and have the greatest time ever. Fulfillment is not dependent on how much money, how long you live, how much, how much power you have. Fulfillment is to be in harmony with other humans and to milk the moment of that harmony. That's fulfillment. That's why you do podcasts, because podcasts are extremely fulfillment, because you have an interaction and exchange with another human that is priceless. There's no fucking technology that can beat that. None of this on this earth, right? We've mentioned before, I do think there's a lot of fulfillment on people and people will become very materialistic. I do think there's still a lot of people who are also very fulfilled. I mean, the introduction of content creation has put 70 smiles on a lot of creators face. Now, there's a negative and positive to a lot of these systems, as we've mentioned. The negative, other people are trying to copy them and want the same amount of success. The positive, there's some individual who wants to create a podcast at any point and try to make a living from that. So there will be positive negatives to both, even for the people at the wedding spending 15,000. There will be people miserable and you have bridezilla, then you have other people who have the greatest time of their own life and they'll remember forever. So there's always two ways to kind of perceive a lot of these things. That's the wonderful humans. That's the wonder of humans, right? And in general, I will kind of adhere to the fact that the value of art and creation has been lost for the most part. And we got to return to that. And messaging like today and stuff you do in your book and your own podcast and your website. Of course, messaging to these people on this type of value will hopefully open up the next person's eye and then they'll get potentially inspired from the messaging to kind of find fulfillment and stop being in this dark place that they may be in. Because like I said, the mental illness issue has been increasing and our ability to kind of fix it has not been very efficient because there's not a true solution for all the depression. Giving people pills is not going to help anybody. I don't believe that personally. But I'm also not one to kind of suffer from depression. So I know each person is different. But these type of messaging has value to those individuals, of course. So we're going to wrap it up. Any final words? Anything you want to plug before we say our goodbyes? I don't have anything to block other than to block this episode. That people should look at this episode a couple of times. It was very interesting. And we went deep. And you can find me on Michaellm.com. Michaell is two lsm.com Michaellm.com. And I say awareness trump's all. And you mentioned my podcast. My podcast is just a quote. It's 20 seconds. And because I'm neurodiverse, I can't edit stuff. I have a hard time editing and stuff. So I created only a 20 to 32nd podcast episode and that's like 100 and 3140 and my mentoring, I plant a seed. You can either discard the seat or use the seed and contemplate on it with a question that you answer for yourself. And I trust that whatever you contribute to that seed will flourish and help all humanity. It sounds very enlightening, of course, so make sure to check it out. This information will be on my website as well as the description on Apple podcast spotify rated five stars. Check out the website. The trend goldenfaith.com www dot the trend golden faith.com or the trend with Rtlpa.com. And yeah, give it a like and subscribe to the YouTube channel. So, hope you guys enjoyed. Appreciate you coming on the podcast. It was a very interesting conversation for Fi Sat myself. Here are some final thoughts before we wrap up the show. This is something new that I'm going to be implementing in every episode to kind of reiterate the most important ideas of the most recent podcast episode. Now, again, I do appreciate Michaell for coming on and talking about his perspective, talking about the value of art and the flaws of man made systems. Something to take away from this conversation is the fact that when it comes down to our current society and all this man made systems we're referring to, there are people who are struggling to find meaning in life, find joy in life. And that is when the value of art, the value of personalized creation, the value of making something based on your own individual inspiration is something that is lost amongst society today. I myself, as well as Michaell, has implemented a couple of examples of how this is getting perpetuated. With the algorithms, with the need to be famous, the need to be rich. And people are wanting to get that even younger and younger with stuff like TikTok and YouTube, for example. And people need to really take away the important aspects of creation and the important aspects of the meaning of life for you as an individual. We see content creators find that in people like Ksi, for example. And we see people struggling, trying to cope with life, with people like Aidan. Not a shot. But it's something you need to realize, especially when you're young. So take a step back. Find your personal inspiration of something you personally want to create. I like talking anime. I like talking politics. These are things I want to enforce in terms of the ideals and the ideas that I'm emitting. So he finds something that works for you and you alone, that you don't need permission from everybody else. You can get feedback, but you don't need permission from outside Twitter warriors of what you're doing and why. It's innovative. So I hope you guys take something out of that. Again, rated five stars. Like and subscribe. Follow the socials. You have a good one. Take care and peace.